Gorgias

Soc.

Now if I on my part cannot tell what use to make of any answers you may give me, you shall extend your speech also; but if I can make some use of them, allow me to do it; that will only be fair. And now, if you can make any use of this answer of mine, do so.

Pol.

Then what is it you say? Do you take rhetoric to be flattery?

Soc.

Well, I said rather a branch of flattery. Why, at your age, Polus, have you no memory? What will you do later on?

Pol.

Then do you think that good orators are considered to be flatterers in their cities, and so worthless?

Soc.

Is that a question you are asking, or are you beginning a speech?

Pol.

I am asking a question.

Soc.

To my mind, they are not considered at all.

Pol.

How not considered? Have they not the chief power in their cities?

Soc.

No, if you mean power in the sense of something good for him who has it.

Pol.

Why, of course I mean that.

Soc.

Then, to my thinking, the orators have the smallest power of all who are in their city.

Pol.

What? Are they not like the despots, in putting to death anyone they please, and depriving anyone of his property and expelling him from their cities as they may think fit?

Soc.

By the Dog, I fear I am still in two minds, Polus, at everything you say, as to whether this is a statement on your own part, and a declaration of your own opinion, or a question you are putting to me.

Pol.

Why, I am asking you.

Soc.

Very well, my friend then are you asking me two things at once?

Pol.

How two?

Soc.

Were you not this moment saying something like this: Is it not the case that the orators put to death anyone they wish, like the despots, and deprive people of property and expel them from their cities as they may think fit?

Pol.

I was.

Soc.

Then I tell you that there are two questions here, and I will give you answers to them both. For I say, Polus, that the orators and the despots alike have the least power in their cities, as I stated just now; since they do nothing that they wish to do, practically speaking, though they do whatever they think to be best.

Pol.

Well, and is not that a great power to have?

Soc.

No, judging at least by what Polus says.

Pol.

I say no! Pardon me, I say yes.

Soc.

No, by the ————, you do not; for you said that great power is a good to him who has it.

Pol.

Yes, and I maintain it.

Soc.

Then do you regard it as a good, when a man does what he thinks to be best, without having intelligence? Is that what you call having a great power?

Pol.

No, I do not.