Laws

Ath. Indeed, these verses of his, as well as those he utters concerning the Cyclopes, are in a kind of unison with the voices of both God and Nature. For being divinely inspired in its chanting, the poetic tribe, with the aid of Graces and Muses, often grasps the truth of history.

Clin. It certainly does.

Ath. Now let us advance still further in the tale that now engages us; for possibly it may furnish some hint regarding the matter we have in view. Ought we not to do so?

Clin. Most certainly.

Ath.Ilium was founded, we say, after moving from the highlands down to a large and noble plain, on a hill of no great height which had many rivers flowing down from Ida above.

Clin. So they say.

Ath. And do we not suppose that this took place many ages after the Deluge?

Clin. Many ages after, no doubt.

Ath. At any rate they seem to have been strangely forgetful of the catastrophe now mentioned, since they placed their city, as described, under a number of rivers descending from the mount, and relied for their safety upon hillocks of no great height.

Clin. So it is evident that they were removed by quite a long interval from that calamity.

Ath. By this time, too, as mankind multiplied, many other cities had been founded.

Clin. Of course.

Ath. And these cities also made attacks on Ilium, probably by sea too, as well as by land, since by this time all made use of the sea fearlessly.

Clin. So it appears.

Ath. And after a stay of ten years the Achaeans sacked Troy.

Clin. Very true.

Ath. Now during this period of ten years, while the siege lasted, the affairs of each of the besiegers at home suffered much owing to the seditious conduct of the young men. For when the soldiers returned to their own cities and homes, these young people did not receive them fittingly and justly, but in such a way that there ensued a vast number of cases of death, slaughter, and exile. So they, being again driven out, migrated by sea; and because Dorieus[*](We do not hear of him elsewhere; and the account here is so vague that it is hard to say what events (or traditions) are alluded to. The usual story is that Dorian invaders drove out the Achaeans from S. Greece (about 900 B.C.)) was the man who then banded together the exiles, they got the new name of Dorians, instead of Achaeans. But as to all the events that follow this, you Lacedaemonians relate them all fully in your traditions.

Meg. Quite true.

Ath. And now—as it were by divine direction—we have returned once more to the very point in our discourse on laws where we made our digression,[*](Cp. Plat. Laws 638d.) when we plunged into the subject of music and drinking-parties; and we can, so to speak, get a fresh grip upon the argument, now that it has reached this point,—the settlement of Lacedaemon, about which you said truly that it and Crete were settled under kindred laws. From the wandering course of our argument, and our excursion through various polities and settlements, we have now gained this much: we have discerned a first, a second and a third State,[*](i.e., (1) the family or clan, under patriarchal headship; (2) the combination of clans under an aristocracy (or monarchy); (3) the mixed state (or city of the plain, like Troy); and (4) the confederacy, consisting, in the example, of three States leagued together.) all, as we suppose, succeeding one another in the settlements which took place during vast ages of time. And now there has emerged this fourth State—or nation, if you so prefer—which was once upon a time in course of establishment and is now established. Now, if we can gather from all this which of these settlements was right and which wrong, and which laws keep safe what is kept safe, and which laws ruin what is mined, and what changes in what particulars would effect the happiness of the State,—then, O Megillus and Clinias, we ought to describe these things again, making a fresh start from the beginning,—unless we have some fault to find with our previous statements.

Meg. I can assure you, Stranger, that if some god were to promise us that, in making this second attempt to investigate legislation, we shall listen to a discourse that is no worse and no shorter than that we have just been listening to, I for one would go a long way to hear it; indeed, this would seem quite a short day, although it is, as a matter of fact, close on midsummer.

Ath. So it seems that we must proceed with our enquiry.

Meg. Most certainly.

Ath. Let us, then, place ourselves in imagination at that epoch when Lacedaemon, together with Argos and Messene and the adjoining districts, had become completely subject, Megillus, to your forefathers. They determined next, according to the tradition, to divide their host into three parts, and to establish three States,—Argos, Messene and Lacedaemon.

Meg. Very true.

Ath. And Temenus became King of Argos, Cresphontes of Messene, and Proclus and Eurysthenes of Lacedaemon.

Meg. Of course.

Ath. And all the men of that time swore that they would assist these kings if anyone should try to wreck their kingdoms.

Meg. Quite so.

Ath. Is the dissolution of a kingdom, or of any government that has ever yet been dissolved, caused by any other agency than that of the rulers themselves? Or, though we made this assertion a moment ago when we happened upon this subject, have we now forgotten it?[*](Cp.Plat. Laws 682d, 682e.)

Meg. How could we possibly have forgotten?

Ath. Shall we further confirm that assertion now? For we have come to the same view now, as it appears, in dealing with facts of history; so that we shall be examining it with reference not to a mere abstraction, but to real events. Now what actually took place was this: each of the three royal houses, and the cities under their sway, swore to one another,[*]( Cp.Plat. Laws 692b.) according to the laws, binding alike on ruler and subject, which they had made,—the rulers that, as time went on and the nation advanced, they would refrain from making their rule more severe, and the subjects that, so long as the rulers kept fast to their promise, they would never upset the monarchy themselves, nor would they allow others to do so; and they swore that the kings should aid both kings and peoples when wronged, and the peoples aid both peoples and kings. Was not that the way of it?

Meg. It was.

Ath. In the polities legally established—whether by the kings or others—in the three States, was not this the most important principle?

Meg. What?

Ath. That the other two States should always help against the third, whenever it disobeyed the laws laid down.

Meg. Evidently.

Ath. And surely most people insist on this,— that the lawgivers shall enact laws of such a kind that the masses of the people accept them willingly; just as one might insist that trainers or doctors should make their treatments or cures of men’s bodies pleasurable.

Meg. Exactly so.

Ath. But in fact one often has to be content if one can bring a body into a sound and healthy state with no great amount of pain.

Meg. Very true.

Ath. The men of that age possessed also another advantage which helped not a little to facilitate legislation.[*](Cp. Plat. Laws 736c.)

Meg. What was that?

Ath. Their legislators, in their efforts to establish equality of property, were free from that worst of accusations which is commonly incurred in States with laws of a different kind, whenever anyone seeks to disturb the occupation of land, or to propose the abolition of debts, since he perceives that without these measures equality could never be fully secured. In such cases, if the lawgiver attempts to disturb any of these things, everyone confronts him with the cry, Hands off, and they curse him for introducing redistributions of land and remissions of debts, with the result that every man is rendered powerless. But the Dorians had this further advantage, that they were free from all dread of giving offence, so that they could divide up their land without dispute; and they had no large debts of old standing.[*]( i.e., the Dorian settlers, by right of conquest, were free to do as they pleased: none of the old owners or creditors could assert rights or claims.)

Meg. True

Ath. How was it then, my good sirs, that their settlement and legislation turned out so badly?