Memorabilia

This remark was reported to Critias and Charicles, who sent for Socrates, showed him the law and forbade him to hold conversation with the young.May I question you, asked Socrates, in case I do not understand any point in your orders?You may, said they.Well now, said he,

I am ready to obey the laws. But lest I unwittingly transgress through ignorance, I want clear directions from you. Do you think that the art of words from which you bid me abstain is associated with sound or unsound reasoning? For if with sound, then clearly I must abstain from sound reasoning: but if with unsound, clearly I must try to reason soundly.

Since you are ignorant, Socrates, said Charicles in an angry tone, we put our order into language easier to understand. You may not hold any converse whatever with the young.Well then, said Socrates, that there may be no question raised about my obedience, please fix the age limit below which a man is to be accounted young.So long, replied Charicles, as he is not permitted to sit in the Council, because as yet he lacks wisdom. You shall not converse with anyone who is under thirty.

Suppose I want to buy something, am I not even then to ask the price if the seller is under thirty?Oh yes, answered Charicles, you may in such cases. But the fact is, Socrates, you are in the habit of asking questions to which you know the answer: so that is what you are not to do. Am I to give no answer, then, if a young man asks me something that I know? — for instance, Where does Charicles live? or Where is Critias?Oh yes, answered Charicles, you may, in such cases.

But you see, Socrates, explained Critias, you will have to avoid your favourite topic, — the cobblers, builders and metal workers[*](Cyropaedia VI. ii. 37.); for it is already worn to rags by you in my opinion.Then must I keep off the subjects of which these supply illustrations, Justice, Holiness, and so forth? Indeed yes, said Charicles, and cowherds too: else you may find the cattle decrease.

Thus the truth was out: the remark about the cattle had been repeated to them: and it was this that made them angry with him.So much, then, for the connexion of Critias with Socrates and their relation to each other.

I venture to lay it down that learners get nothing from a teacher with whom they are out of sympathy. Now, all the time that Critias and Alcibiades associated with Socrates they were out of sympathy with him, but from the very first their ambition was political advancement. For while they were still with him, they tried to converse, whenever possible, with prominent politicians.

Indeed, there is a story told of Alcibiades, that, when he was less than twenty years old, he had a talk about laws with Pericles, his guardian, the first citizen in the State.

Tell me, Pericles, he said, can you teach me what a law is? Certainly, he replied.Then pray teach me. For whenever I hear men praised for keeping the laws, it occurs to me that no one can really deserve that praise who does not know what a law is.

Well, Alcibiades, there is no great difficulty about what you desire. You wish to know what a law is. Laws are all the rules approved and enacted by the majority in assembly, whereby they declare what ought and what ought not to be done.Do they suppose it is right to do good or evil?Good, of course, young man, — not evil.

But if, as happens under an oligarchy, not the majority, but a minority meet and enact rules of conduct, what are these?Whatsoever the sovereign power in the State, after deliberation, enacts and directs to be done is known as a law.If, then, a despot, being the sovereign power, enacts what the citizens are to do, are his orders also a law?Yes, whatever a despot as ruler enacts is also known as a law.

But force, the negation of law, what is that, Pericles? Is it not the action of the stronger when he constrains the weaker to do whatever he chooses, not by persuasion, but by force?That is my opinion.Then whatever a despot by enactment constrains the citizens to do without persuasion, is the negation of law?I think so: and I withdraw my answer that whatever a despot enacts without persuasion is a law.

And when the minority passes enactments, not by persuading the majority, but through using its power, are we to call that force or not?Everything, I think, that men constrain others to do without persuasion, whether by enactment or not, is not law, but force.It follows then, that whatever the assembled majority, through using its power over the owners of property, enacts without persuasion is not law, but force?

Alcibiades, said Pericles, at your age, I may tell you, we, too, were very clever at this sort of thing. For the puzzles we thought about and exercised our wits on were just such as you seem to think about now.Ah, Pericles, cried Alcibiades, if only I had known you intimately when you were at your cleverest in these things!