<GetPassage xmlns:tei="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0" xmlns="http://chs.harvard.edu/xmlns/cts">
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                <requestUrn>urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0062.tlg018.perseus-eng5:15-27</requestUrn>
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            <reply>
                <urn>urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0062.tlg018.perseus-eng5:15-27</urn>
                <passage>
                    <TEI xmlns="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0"><text xml:lang="eng"><body><div type="translation" n="urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0062.tlg018.perseus-eng5" xml:lang="eng"><div type="textpart" subtype="section" xml:base="urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0062.tlg018.perseus-eng5:" n="15"><p><label>Hermes</label> Well, are you never going to begin?</p><p><label>Zeus</label> I imagine, men of Olympus, that you
would gladly give considerable sums to obtain
an idea of what this matter may be with reference to which you are now summoned. This
being the case, you will do well to lend me your
ears with all eagerness. Now the present crisis,
deities, wellnigh declares, with audible voice, that
we must give all our energies to considering the
matters before us, but, as a matter of fact, we
seem to me to treat them with negligence. But
I should like-my Demosthenes fails me—to explain to you why I was so much disturbed as to
call an assembly. Yesterday, as you are aware,
Mnesitheos, the ship-master, offered a sacrifice
of thanksgiving for his ship that was almost lost
off Kaphereus, and we feasted in the Peiraieusas many of us, that is, as Mnesitheos had invited
to the banquet. After the libations you dispersed
in different directions, pursuing your own devices,
while I, seeing that it was not yet late, went up to
the city to stroll about at dusk in the Kerameikos,
pondering on the meanness of Mnesitheos. For
he offered up, by way of feast to sixteen gods,
one cock, aged and asthmatic at that, and four
grains of frankincense, pretty well decayed, so


<pb n="p.27"/>


that it went out immediately on the embers, and
not enough fragrance came out of the smoke to
tickle the tip of your nose. And yet when his
ship was actually going on the rocks and within.
the reef he promised whole hecatombs.

</p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" xml:base="urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0062.tlg018.perseus-eng5:" n="16"><p>
Well, revolving this in my mind, I turned up
near the Painted Porch, and there I saw a great
crowd of men gathered, some inside the porch
itself, but most of them in the open air, and some
were shouting, stretched out on the benches. I
guessed what was the case: that they were philosophers of the eristic order, and I determined
to stand by and listen to what they might say. I
happened to have a cloud wrapped round me—a
thick one-so I took on an exterior of their sort,
drew forth my beard, and presented no bad imitation of a philosopher. And so I elbowed my
way through the crowd and got inside without
being recognized, and I found a violent controversy going on between that fox Damis the Epicurean and Timokles the Stoic, the best of men.
Timokles was in a perspiration, and had lost his
voice already with screaming, and Damis was exasperating him still further by sardonic mockery.
Now, if you will believe it, their whole discussion was about us. Damis (confound him) declared that we have no forethought for men or
guardianship of their affairs, asserting that we do
not exist at all, for this was plainly the purport


<pb n="p.28"/>



of his speech. And some there were who applauded him. </p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" xml:base="urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0062.tlg018.perseus-eng5:" n="17"><p>
But the other, Timokles, took our
side and fought for us, and excited himself, and
did his best for us, praising our watchful care,
and rehearsing how all things are arranged and
reduced to regularity and order by us. He, too,
had some applause, but he had already been
speaking too long and his utterance was labored,
so that the crowd looked away from him to Damis. Seeing what was at stake, I bade the night
descend and break up the meeting, and so they
went their ways, agreeing to examine the question
completely the next day. I followed along with
the crowd, and heard them praising Damis's arguments among themselves as they walked home,
and already decidedly siding with him. But there
were some, too, who did not think it right to decide beforehand between the rivals, but to wait
and see what Timokles would say on the morrow.

</p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" xml:base="urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0062.tlg018.perseus-eng5:" n="18"><p>

These, deities, are my reasons for summoning
you; no slight ones, if you consider that all our
honor, revenue, and prestige come from men.
And if they should be persuaded either that we
do not exist at all or that we have no forethought
for them, we shall have no more sacrifices and
gifts and honor from earth, and we shall sit idly
in heaven oppressed by hunger when we are deprived of those feasts and national holidays and
games and sacrifices and vigils and processions.


<pb n="p.29"/>


In such a crisis we all ought certainly to devise
some means of safety by which Timokles may be
victorious and be held to make the truer argument, and Damis may be jeered by the audience.
For I myself have small confidence that Timokles
will win by his own exertions unless he also receives assistance from us. Accordingly, Hermes,
announce in due form that remarks are in order.</p><p><label>Hermes</label> Hear ye, silence! Make no disturbance! Who wishes to speak, of those full-grown
divinities whose right it is?
What is this? Does no one rise? They are all
silent, overwhelmed by the importance of the news.</p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" xml:base="urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0062.tlg018.perseus-eng5:" n="19"><p><label>Momos</label><l>Now I would that you all might turn
to earth and to water!</l>
But for my part, Zeus, if I am at liberty to speak
with perfect freedom, I have a good many things
to say.</p><p><label>Zeus</label> Speak, Momos, without restraint. I am
sure your frankness will be for our good.</p><p><label>Momos</label> Hear, then, deities, what at any rate
I think in my heart of hearts, as they say. You
must know that I have been pretty confidently
expecting that our affairs would come to as bad a
pass as this, and that numbers of sophists like
these would spring up against us, finding grounds
for their temerity in our own conduct. By heaven, we have no right to be angry with Epicurus
or with his disciples and successors if they have


<pb n="p.30"/>



conceived these notions about us. What, then,
could you ask them to think when they see such
anarchy in human life, the best of them neglected,
perishing utterly in poverty and disease and slavery, while worthless blackguards are preferred
to them in honor, and surpass them in riches, and
are placed in authority over their betters; when
they see that sacrilege is not punished but escapes
unnoticed, while sometimes innocent men are impaled on stakes and beaten to death? It is only
natural, then, that when they see such things they
decide as they do, that we have no existence at
all,</p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" xml:base="urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0062.tlg018.perseus-eng5:" n="20"><p> particularly when they hear the oracles saying
that if a certain man crosses the Halys he will
overthrow a great kingdom, without specifying
whether it will be his own kingdom or his enemy's. And then again the oracle says:
<l>Salamis, dear to the gods, thou shalt slay children of women.</l>

But I imagine both the Persians and the Greeks
were children of women.
And then when they hear from the minstrels
how we fall in love, and receive wounds, and get
put in chains and made servants, and are divided
against ourselves, and have a myriad of troubles,
all the time claiming to be blessed and indestructible, have they not a perfect right to jeer at
us and make us of no account? But we get angry if certain persons who are human beings, and


<pb n="p.31"/>



not altogether devoid of wits, sift these matters
and deny our providence, whereas we ought to
felicitate ourselves if any still continue to sacrifice to sinners like us.
</p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" xml:base="urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0062.tlg018.perseus-eng5:" n="21"><p>
And now, Zeus, give me an honest answer to a
question-for we are alone, and there is no mortal
present in the assembly, except Herakles and Dionysos and Ganymedes and Asklepios, who have
somehow got naturalized among us—have you ever
paid enough attention to the people on earth to
distinguish the bad ones from the good? You
cannot say you have. Certainly, unless Theseus
on his
way from Troizen to Athens had incidentally exterminated those malefactors, Skeiron and
the Pine-Bender and Kerkyon and the others
might have continued to live riotously by the
slaughter of wayfarers, as far as you and your
providence are concerned. And if Eurystheus,
living in the earliest times and full of forethought,
had not been moved by philanthropy to inquire
into every one's affairs, and had not sent forth his
servant here, an active man and keen for labors,
you, Zeus, would have given small thought to the
Hydra and the Stymphalian birds and the Thrakian horses and the drunken insolence of the
Kentaurs. </p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" xml:base="urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0062.tlg018.perseus-eng5:" n="22"><p>On the contrary, if I must speak
candidly, we sit and watch for just one thing,
whether haply some one is sacrificing and sending up the savor of burnt-offerings beside the


<pb n="p.32"/>



altars. Everything else drifts down stream as
chance carries it. Accordingly, our present experience is natural, and what we have yet in store
for us, too, when little by little mortals lift their
heads and find that it does them no good to offer
us sacrifices and pageants. Then you will soon
see your Epicurus and your Metrodoros and
your Damis jeering, and the speakers on our side
overcome and stopped by them. Not that Momos has much to lose if he falls into disrepute,
for I was never one of the reputable ones, even
while you were still prosperous and had a monopoly of the sacrifices.</p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" xml:base="urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0062.tlg018.perseus-eng5:" n="23"><p><label>Zeus</label> Do not mind this fellow's babble, deities,
for he was always an ill-conditioned fault-finder.
And, besides, in the words of the great Demosthenes, it is easy to criticise and blame and find
fault-any one who likes can do that; but it is
the gift of a truly sagacious counsellor to point
out how the state of things may be improved,
and this I am sure the rest of you will do, even if
Momos holds his tongue.</p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" xml:base="urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0062.tlg018.perseus-eng5:" n="24"><p><label>Poseidon</label> I, as you know, am generally under
water, and dwell by myself in the deep sea, doing
my best to rescue mariners and forward ships
and temper the winds. Nevertheless, I have a
stake in things up here, too, and it is my opinion
that this Damis ought to be disposed of before
he comes to the contest, either by lightning or


<pb n="p.33"/>


some other means, lest his speech prevail-for
you say, Zeus, that he is a plausible sort of fellow.
In that way we shall show them at the same time
that we take vengeance on people who say such
things against us.</p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" xml:base="urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0062.tlg018.perseus-eng5:" n="25"><p><label>Zeus</label> Are you joking, Poseidon, or have you
clean forgotten that we have nothing to do with
such matters, but that the Fates weave his death
for each man—for one by lightning, for another
by the sword, for a third by fever or consumption? Do you suppose that if this were under
my control I would have let those temple-robbers
go forth unstricken from Pisa the other day, when
they had cut off two locks of my hair weighing
six pounds each? Or would you yourself have
ignored the fisherman from Oreos who carried off
your trident at Geraistos? Above all, we should
seem to have lost self-control in our distress and
to be afraid of Damis's arguments, and therefore
to be getting rid of the man rather than to endure to confront him with Timokles. Should we
not in this way seem to be winning our case
merely by default ?</p><p><label>Poseidon</label> Now I thought I had hit on a short
cut to victory.</p><p><label>Zeus</label> Nonsense, Poseidon. Your argument is
worthy of one of your own tunny-fish, positively dense. Snatch away the opponent, forsooth, so that he may die unconquered and



<pb n="p.34"/>



leave his arguments behind without attack or
exposure!</p><p><label>Poseidon</label> Very well, think of something better
yourselves, if you dismiss my idea with a joke
about the tunnies.</p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" xml:base="urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0062.tlg018.perseus-eng5:" n="26"><p><label>Apollo</label> If it were permitted by law to a beardless youth like me to address the meeting, I could,
perhaps, make a useful contribution to the discussion.</p><p><label>Momos</label> In the first place, Apollo, the discussion has to do with such great questions that the
right of speech does not go by years, but is common to all. For it would be a nice thing if, when
we are in the extremest danger, we should quibble about a legal qualification. But, anyhow, you
are already decidedly eligible as a speaker in the
eye of the law, for you emerged long ago from
among the youths; you have been inscribed on
the rolls of the twelve, and you were almost a
member of the council in Kronos's day. So don't
try your youthful airs on us, but speak up boldly
and tell us your views. And do not let the fact
that you are a beardless orator embarrass you,
particularly when you have your son Asklepios
here with a beard to his waist. Moreover, it
would be peculiarly fitting for you to show your
wisdom now of all occasions, unless you have sat
philosophizing with the Muses on Helikon to no
purpose.


<pb n="p.35"/></p><p><label>Apollo</label> It is not your business, however, Momos, to give these permissions, but Zeus's, and if
he bids me I might perhaps say something worthy
of the Muses and my exercises on Helikon.</p><p><label>Zeus</label> Speak, my child; I give you leave.</p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" xml:base="urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0062.tlg018.perseus-eng5:" n="27"><p><label>Apollo</label> This Timokles is a worthy man and
pious, and perfectly conversant with the methods
of the Stoics, so that he teaches many young men
and levies no small fee therefor.
For he is very
convincing when he discourses with his pupils in
private; but he lacks nerve for public speaking,
and his utterance is untrained-half Greek and
half barbarian. On this account he always raises
a laugh in company, for he does not speak connectedly, but stammers and becomes confused,
most of all when, in spite of this weakness, he
wishes to exhibit elegance of style. His mind is
surpassingly sharp and quick-so they say who
are best informed in the doctrines of the Stoicsbut by his feebleness in speaking and expounding
he spoils his subject-matter and confuses it, and
fails to make his points clear, but rather lays down
enigmatical propositions; and when it is his turn
to answer expresses himself more darkly still.
So he is misunderstood and laughed at. Now
I think one should speak plainly, and take care
above everything that his hearers understand him.</p></div></div></body></text></TEI>
                </passage>
            </reply>
            </GetPassage>