I beg you here and now, Zeus, as we are alone and
there is no man in our gathering except Heracles
and Dionysus and Ganymede and Asclepius, these
naturalized aliens—answer me truly, have you ever
had enough regard for those on earth to find out
If you would have me speak the truth, we sit
here considering just one question, whether anybody is slaying victims and burning incense at our
altars ; everything else drifts with the current, swept
aimlessly along. Therefore we are getting and
shall continue to get no more than we deserve when
men gradually begin to crane their necks upward and
find out that it does them no good to sacrifice to us
and hold processions. Then in a little while you
shall see the Epicuruses and Metrodoruses and
Damises laughing at us, and our pleaders overpowered and silenced by them. So it is for the rest
of you to check and remedy all this, you who carried
it so far. To me, being only Momus, it does not
make much difference if I ain to be unhonoured, for
even in bygone days I was not one of those in
honour, while you are still fortunate and enjoy your
sacrifices.
Let us ignore this fellow’s nonsense, gods; he is always harsh and fault-finding. As that wonderful man Demosthenes says, to reproach and criticize and find fault is easy and anyone can do it, but to advise how a situation. may be improved requires a really wise counsellor; and this is what the rest of you will do, I am very sure, even if Momus says nothing.
For my part I am pretty much subaqueous, as you know, and live by myself in the depths, doing my best to rescue sailors, speed vessels on their course and calm the winds. Nevertheless I am interested in matters here too, and I say that this Damis should be put out of the way before he enters the dispute, either with a thunderbolt or by some other means, for fear that he may get the better of it in the argument ; for you say, Zeus, that he is a plausible fellow. At the same time we'll show them how we punish people who say such things against us.
Are you joking, Poseidon, or have you completely
forgotten that nothing of the sort is in our power,
but the Fates decide by their spinning that one man
is to die by a thunderbolt, another by the sword
and another by fever or consumption? If it lay in
my power, do you suppose I would have let the
temple-robbers get away from Olympia the other
day unscathed by my thunderbolt, when they had
shorn off two of my curls weighing six pounds apiece?
Or would you yourself at Geraestus have allowed the
fisherman from Oreus to filch your trident? Besides,
Why, I supposed I had thought of a short cut to victory ?
Avast ! a stockfish idea, Poseidon, downright stupid, to make away with your adversary in advance so that he may die undefeated, leaving the question still in dispute and unsettled !
Well, then, the rest of you think of something else that is better, since you relegate my ideas to the stockfish in that fashion.
If we young fellows without beards were permitted by law to take the floor, perhaps I might have made some contribution to the debate.
In the first place, Apollo, the debate is on such
great issues that the right to speak does not go by
age but is open to all alike ; for it would be delicious
if when we were in direst danger we quibbled about
our rights under the law. Secondly, according to law _
you are already fully entitled to the floor, for you
came of age long ago and are registered in the list
of the Twelve Gods and almost were a member of
the council in the days of Cronus. So don’t play
the boy with us: say what you think boldly, and
But it is not for you to give such permission, Momus; it is for Zeus, and if he lets me perhaps I may say something not without sweetness and light and worthy of my study on Helicon.
Speak, my boy: I give you permission.
This Timocles is an upright, God-fearing man and
he is thoroughly up in the Stoic doctrines, so that
he gives lessons to many of the young men
-and collects large fees for it, being very plausible
when he disputes privately with his pupils; but he
utterly lacks the courage to speak before a crowd
and his language is vulgar and half-foreign, so that
he gets laughed at for that reason when he appears
in public, for he does not talk fluently but stammers
and gets confused, especially when in spite of these
faults he wants to make a show of fine language.
His intellect, to be sure, is exceedingly keen and
subtle, as people say who know more than I about
Stoicism, but in lecturing and expounding he weakens
and obscures his points by his incapacity, not making
his meaning clear but presenting propositions that
are like riddles and returning answers that are still
more unintelligible; hence the others failing to com-
You were right, Apollo, in praising people who speak clearly, even though you yourself do not do it at all, for in your oracles you are ambiguous and riddling and you unconcernedly toss most of them into the debatable ground so that your hearers need another Apollo to interpret them. But what do you advise as the next step, what remedy for Timocles’ helplessness in debate ?
To give him a spokesman if possible, Momus, one of those eloquent chaps who will say fittingly whatever Timocles thinks of and suggests.
Truly a puerile suggestion which shows that you still need a tutor, that we should bring a spokesman into a meeting of philosophers to interpret the opinions of Timocles to the company, and that Damis should speak in his own person and unaided while the other, making use of a proxy, privately whispers his ideas into his ear and the proxy does the speaking, perhaps without even understanding what he hears, Wouldn’t that be fun for the crowd! No, let’s think of some other way to manage this thing.
But
as for you, my admirable friend, since you claim to
be a prophet and have collected large fees for such
work, even to the extent of getting ingots of gold
once upon a time, why do you not give us a timely
display of your skill by foretelling which of the
How can I do that, Momus, when we have no tripod here, and no incense or prophetic spring like Castaly ?
There now! you dodge the test when it comes to the pinch.
Speak up, my boy, all the same, and don’t give this libeller a chance to malign and insult your profession by saying that it all depends on a tripod and water and incense, so that if you didn’t have those things you would be deprived of your skill.
It would be better, father, to do such business at Delphi or Colophon where I have all the necessaries at hand, in the usual way. However, even thus devoid of them and unequipped, I will try to foretell whose the victory shall be: you will bear with me if my verses are lame.
Do speak ; but let it be clear, and not itself in need of a spokesman or an interpreter. It is not now a question of lamb and turtle cooking together in Lydia, but you know what the debate is about.
What in the world are you going to say, my boy?
These preliminaries to your oracle are terrifying in
themselves; your colour is changed, your eyes are
rolling, your hair stands on end, your movements are
How can I, Zeus, when the oracle is so clear and manifest ?
Well then, suppose you tell us what in the world it means.
It is quite manifest, so that we shan’t need a
Themistocles.
As for me, father, though I am but an alien I.shall not hesitate to say what I think. When they have met and are disputing, if Timocles gets the better of it, let’s allow the discussion about us to proceed ; but if it turns out at all adversely, in that case, if you approve, I myself will at once shake the porch and throw it down on Damis, so that he may not affront us, confound him!
In the name of Heracles! that was a loutish,
horribly Boeotian thing you said, Heracles, to involve
so many honest men in the destruction of a single
rascal, and the porch too, with its Marathon and
Miltiades and Cynegirus!
So when I killed the lion or the Hydra, the Fates did it through my agency?
Why, certainly!
No, not by any means.
Then hear me frankly, Zeus, for as the comic
poet puts it,
If that is the way things stand here with you, I
shall say good-bye forever to the honours here
and the odour of sacrifice and the blood of victims
and go down to Hell, where with my bow uncascd
I can at least frighten the ghosts of the animals I
have slain.
Bravo! testimony from the inside, as the saying goes. Really you would have done us a great service if you had given Damis a hint to say that.
But who is this coming up in hot haste, the
one of bronze, with the fine tooling and the fine
contours, with his hair tied up in the old-fashioned
way ? Oh yes, it is your brother, Hermes, the
one of the public square, beside the Painted Porch.
Important news, Zeus, that requires unlimited attention.
Tell me whether we have overlooked anything else in the way of conspiracy.
Leave off your bombast, my good Hermagoras; I
know the men you mean. But tell me whether they
have been in action long.
Not very; they were still skirmishing, slinging abuse at each other at long range.
Then what else remains to be done, gods, except to stoop over and listen to them? So let the Hours remove the bar now, drive the clouds away and throw open the gates of Heaven.
Heracles! what a crowd
No, you tell me first what reason you have for believing that they do exist.
No, you tell me, you miscreant !
No, you!
So far our man is much better and more noisy in his bullying. Good, Timocles! Pile on your abuse ; that is your strong point, for in everything else he will make you as mute as a fish.
But I swear by Athena that I will not answer you first.
Well then, put your question, Timocles, for you
Very well. Tell me then, you scoundrel, don’t you think the gods exercise any providence ?
Not in the least.
What’s that you say? Then is all that we see about us uncared for by any providence ?
Yes.
And the administration of the universe is not directed by any god ?
No.
And everything drifts at random?
Yes.
Men, do you hear that and put up with it? Aren’t you going to stone the villain ?
Why do you embitter men against me, Timocles? And who are you to get angry on behalf of the gods, especially when they themselves are not angry? They have done me no harm, you see, though they have listened to me long—if indeed they have ears.
Yes, they have, Damis, they have, and they will
punish you some day in the hereafter.
And when can they find time for me, when they
have so many cares, you say, and manage all creation,
which is unlimited in its extent? That is why they
have not yet paid.you back for all your false oaths
and everything else—I don’t want to be forced to
deal in abuse like you, contrary to our stipulations :
and yet I don’t see what better manifestation of
their providence they could have made than to crush
your life out miserably, miserable sinner that you are!
But it is clear that they are away from home, across
the Ocean, no doubt, visiting the guileless Ethiopians.
What can I say in reply to all this impudence, Damis ?
Tell me what I wanted you to tell me long ago, how you were induced to believe that the gods exercise providence.
In the first place the order of nature convinced me, the sun always going the same road and the moon likewise and the seasons changing and plants growing and living creatures being born, and these latter so cleverly devised that they can support life and move and think and walk and build houses and cobble shoes—and all the rest of it; these seem to me to be works of providence.
That is just the question, Timocles, and you are
trying to beg it, for it is not yet proved that each of
For my part I don’t think that any further proof is necessary on top of all this. Nevertheless I'll tell ou. Answer me this: do you think that Homer is the best poet ?
Yes, certainly,
Well, it was he that convinced me with his portrayal of the providence of the gods.
But, my admirable friend, everybody will agree
with you that Homer is a good poet, to be sure, but
not that he or any other poet whatsoever is a truthful
witness. They do not pay any heed to truth, I take
it, but only to charming their hearers, and to this
end they enchant them with metres and entrance
However, I should like to know what it
was of Homer’s that convinced you most. What he
says about Zeus, how his daughter and his brother
and his wife made a plot to fetter him?