<GetPassage xmlns:tei="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0" xmlns="http://chs.harvard.edu/xmlns/cts">
            <request>
                <requestName>GetPassage</requestName>
                <requestUrn>urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0059.tlg008.perseus-eng2:287-291</requestUrn>
            </request>
            <reply>
                <urn>urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0059.tlg008.perseus-eng2:287-291</urn>
                <passage>
                    <TEI xmlns="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0"><text xml:lang="eng"><body><div type="translation" n="urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0059.tlg008.perseus-eng2" xml:lang="eng"><div type="textpart" subtype="section" resp="perseus" n="287"><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> But we must not always judge of length by fitness, either.  For we shall not in the least want a length that is fitted to give pleasure, except, perhaps, as a secondary consideration;  and again reason counsels us to accept fitness for the easiest and quickest completion of the inquiry in which we are engaged, not as the first, but as the second thing to be desired.  By far our first and most important object should be to exalt the method itself of ability to divide by classes,
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="286e"/> and therefore, if a discourse, even though it be very long, makes the hearer better able to discover the truth, we should accept it eagerly and should not be offended by its length, or if it is short, we should judge it in the same way.  And, moreover, anyone who finds fault with the length of discourses in our discussions, or objects to roundabout methods, must not merely find fault with the speeches for their length and then pass them quickly and hastily by,
<milestone unit="page" resp="Stephanus" n="287"/> <milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="287a"/> but he must also show that there is ground for the belief that if they had been briefer they would have made their hearers better dialecticians and quicker to discover through reason the truth of realities.  About other people and the praise or blame they direct towards other qualities in discourse, we need not be concerned;  we need not even appear to hear them.  But enough of this, if you feel about it as I do;  so let us go back to the statesman
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="287b"/> and apply to him the example of weaving that we spoke of a while ago.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> Very well;  let us do so.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> The art of the king, then, has been separated from most of the kindred arts, or rather from all the arts that have to do with herds.  There remain, however, the arts that have to do with the state itself.  These are both causes and contingent causes, and our first duty is to separate them from one another.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> Quite right.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> It is not easy to divide them into halves, you know.
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="287c"/> But I think the reason will nevertheless be clear as we go on.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> Then we had better divide in another way.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Let us divide them, then, like an animal that is sacrificed, by joints, since we cannot bisect them;  for we must always divide into a number of parts as near two as possible.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> How shall we do it in the present instance?</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Just as in the previous case, you know, we classed all the arts which furnished tools for weaving as contingent causes.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> Yes.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> So now we must do the same thing, but it is even more imperative.
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="287d"/> For all the arts which furnish any implement, great or small, for the state, must be classed as contingent causes;  for without them neither state nor statesmanship could ever exist, and yet I do not suppose we shall reckon any of them as the work of the kingly art.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> No.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> We shall certainly be undertaking a hard task in separating this class from the rest;  for it might be said that everything that exists is the instrument of something or other, and the statement seems plausible.  But there are possessions of another kind in the state,
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="287e"/> about which I wish to say something.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> What do you wish to say?</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> That they do not possess this instrumental function.  For they are not, like tools or instruments, made for the purpose of being causes of production, but exist for the preservation of that which has been produced.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> What is this class of possessions?</said></p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" resp="perseus" n="288"><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> That very various class which is made with dry and wet materials and such as are wrought by fire and without fire;  it is called collectively the class of receptacles;  it is a very large class and has, so far as I can see,
<milestone unit="page" resp="Stephanus" n="288"/> <milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="288a"/> nothing at all to do with the art we are studying.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> No, of course not.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And there is a third very large class of possessions to be noticed, differing from these;  it is found on land and on water, it wanders about and is stationary, it is honorable and without honor, but it has one name, because the whole class is always a seat for some one and exists to be sat upon.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> What is it?</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> We call it a vehicle, and it certainly is not at all the work of statesmanship, but much rather that of the arts of carpentry, pottery and bronze-working.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> I understand.</said></p><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="288b"/><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And is there a fourth class?  Shall we say that there is one, differing from those three, one to which most of the things we have mentioned belong—all clothing, most arms, all circuit walls of earth or of stone, and countless other things?  And since they are all made for defence, they may most rightly be called by the collective name of defence, and this may much more properly be considered for the most part the work of the art of building or of weaving than of statesmanship.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> Certainly.</said></p><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="288c"/><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And should we care to make a fifth class, of ornamentation and painting and all the imitations created by the use of painting and music solely for our pleasure and properly included under one name?</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> What is its name?</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> It is called by some such name as plaything.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> To be sure.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> So this one name will properly be applied to all the members of this class;  for none of them is practised for any serious purpose, but all of them merely for play.</said></p><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="288d"/><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> I understand that pretty well, too.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And shall we not make a sixth class of that which furnishes to all these the materials of which and in which all the arts we have mentioned fashion their works, a very various class, the offspring of many other arts?</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> What do you mean?</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Gold and silver and all the products of the mines and all the materials which tree-felling and wood-cutting in general cut and provide for carpentry and basket-weaving;  and then, too, the art of stripping the bark from plants and the leather-worker’s art which takes off the skins of animals, <milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="288e"/> and all the other arts which have to do with such matters, and those that make corks and paper and cords and enable us to manufacture composite classes of things from kinds that are not composite.  We call all this, as one class, the primary and simple possession of man, and it is in no way the work of the kingly science.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> Good.</said></p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" resp="perseus" n="289"><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And property in food and all the things which, mingling parts of themselves with parts of the body, have any function of keeping it in health, <milestone unit="page" resp="Stephanus" n="289"/> <milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="289a"/> we may say is the seventh class, and we will call it collectively our nourishment, unless we have some better name to give it.  All this we can assign to the arts of husbandry, hunting, gymnastics, medicine, and cooking more properly than to that of statesmanship.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> Of course.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Now I think I have in these seven classes mentioned nearly all kinds of property except tame animals.  See:  there was the primary possession, which ought in justice to have been placed first, and after this
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="289b"/> the instrument, receptacle, vehicle, defence, plaything, nourishment.  Whatever we have omitted, unless some important thing has been overlooked, can find its place in one of those classes;  for instance, the group of coins, seals, and stamps, for there is not among these any kinship such as to form a large class, but some of them can be made to fit into the class of ornaments, others into that of instruments, though the classification is somewhat forced.  All property in tame animals,
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="289c"/> except slaves, is included in the art of herding, which has already been divided into parts.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> Yes quite true.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> There remains the class of slaves and servants in general, and here I prophesy that we shall find those who set up claims against the king for the very fabric of his art, just as the spinners and carders and the rest of whom we spoke advanced claims against the weavers a while ago.  All the others, whom we called contingent causes, have been removed along with the works we just mentioned and have been separated
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="289d"/> from the activity of the king and the statesman.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> That seems to be the case, at least.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Come then, let us step up and look from close at hand at those who are left, that so we may know them more surely.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> Yes, that is what we should do.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> We shall find, then, that the greatest servants, when seen from near at hand, are in conduct and condition the opposite of that which we suspected.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> Who are they?</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> The bought servants, acquired by purchase, whom we can without question call slaves.
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="289e"/> They make no claim to any share in the kingly art.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> Certainly not.</said></p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" resp="perseus" n="290"><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> How about those free men who put themselves voluntarily in the position of servants of those whom we mentioned before?  I mean the men who carry about and distribute among one another the productions of husbandry and the other arts, whether in the domestic marketplaces or by travelling from city to city by land or sea, exchanging money for wares or money for money, the men whom we call brokers,
<milestone unit="page" resp="Stephanus" n="290"/> <milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="290a"/> merchants, shipmasters, and peddlers;  do they lay any claim to statesmanship?</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> Possibly to commercial statesmanship</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> But certainly we shall never find laborers, whom we see only too glad to serve anybody for hire, claiming a share in the kingly art.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> Certainly not.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> But there are people who perform services of another kind.  How about them?</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> What services and what men do you mean?</said></p><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="290b"/><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> The class of heralds and those who become by long practice skilled as clerks and other clever men who perform various services in connection with public offices.  What shall we call them?</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> What you called the others, servants;  they are not themselves rulers in the states.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> But surely it was no dream that made me say we should find somewhere in this region those who more than others lay claim to the art of statesmanship;  and yet it would be utterly absurd
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="290c"/> to look for them in any servile position.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> Certainly.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> But let us draw a little closer still to those whom we have not yet examined.  There are men who have to do with divination and possess a portion of a certain menial science;  for they are supposed to be interpreters of the gods to men.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> Yes.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And then, too, the priests, according to law and custom, know how to give the gods, by means of sacrifices, the gifts that please them from us
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="290d"/> and by prayers to ask for us the gain of good things from them;  now these are both part of a servant’s art.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> At least they seem to be so.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> At last, then, I think we are, as it were, on the track of our quarry.  For the bearing of the priests and prophets is indeed full of pride, and they win high esteem because of the magnitude of their undertakings.  In <placeName key="tgn,7016833">Egypt</placeName>, for example, no king can rule without being a priest,
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="290e"/> and if he happens to have forced his way to the throne from some other class, he must enroll himself in the class of priests afterwards;  and among the Greeks, too, you would find that in many states the performance of the greatest public sacrifices is a duty imposed upon the highest officials.  Yes, among you Athenians this is very plain, for they say the holiest and most national of the ancient sacrifices are performed by the man whom the lot has chosen to be the King. <note anchored="true" resp="Loeb">The second in order of the nine annual archons.</note></said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> Yes, certainly.</said></p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" resp="perseus" n="291"><milestone unit="page" resp="Stephanus" n="291"/><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="291a"/><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> We must, then, examine these elected kings and priests and their assistants, and also another very large crowd of people which has just come in sight now that the others are out of the way.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> Who are these people?</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> A very queer lot.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> How so?</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> They are of very mixed race at least they seem so now, when I can just see them.  For many of them are like lions and centaurs and other fierce creatures,
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="291b"/> and very many are like satyrs and the weak and cunning beasts;  and they make quick exchanges of forms and qualities with one another.  Ah, but now, Socrates, I think I have just made out who they are.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> Tell me;  for you seem to have caught sight of something strange.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Yes, for ignorance makes things seem strange to everybody.  That was what happened to me just now;  when I suddenly caught sight of them I did not recognize the troop of those who busy themselves
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="291c"/> with the affairs of the state.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> What troop?</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> That which of all the sophists is the greatest charlatan and most practised in charlatanry.  This, although it is a hard thing to do, must be separated from the band of really statesmanlike and kingly men, if we are to get a clear view of the object of our search.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> But we certainly cannot give that up.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> No, of course not.  I agree to that.  And now please answer a question.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> What is it?</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> We agree that monarchy is one of the forms
<milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="291d"/> of government, do we not?</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> Yes.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And after monarchy one might, I should say, mention the rule of the few.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> Yes, of course.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And a third form of government is the rule of the multitude, called democracy, is it not?</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> Yes, certainly.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> Do not these three become after a fashion five, producing out of themselves two additional names?</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> What names?</said></p><milestone unit="section" resp="Stephanus" n="291e"/><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> People nowadays are likely to take into consideration enforced subjection and voluntary obedience, poverty and wealth, law and lawlessness as they occur in governments, and so they divide two of the forms we mentioned, giving to the two aspects of monarchy the two names tyranny and royalty.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> Certainly.</said></p><p><said who="#Stranger"><label>Str.</label> And the state that is ruled by the few is called, as the case may be, aristocracy or oligarchy.</said></p><p><said who="#Younger Socrates"><label>Y. Soc.</label> To be sure.</said></p></div></div></body></text></TEI>
                </passage>
            </reply>
            </GetPassage>