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                    <TEI xmlns="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0"><text xml:lang="eng"><body><div type="translation" xml:lang="eng" n="urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0007.tlg130.perseus-eng3"><div type="textpart" subtype="section" n="intro"><head>INTRODUCTION</head><p>Many will find this little <foreign xml:lang="fre">jeu d’esprit</foreign> as pleasant reading as anything in Plutarch. In part, this may be due to its (perhaps accidental) brevity; but its originality and freshness are undeniable. These qualities have, to be sure, puzzled a number of scholars who are still disputing whether the sources are principally Epicurean or Peripatetic or Cynic. Nothing quite like it is known elsewhere,<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">But talking animals were not new (Hirzel, <title xml:lang="deu" rend="italic">Der Dialog</title>, i, p. 338 f.).</note> which sad lack baffles the <foreign xml:lang="deu">Quellenforscher</foreign>. So, rather than allow a touch of spontaneous imagination to Plutarch, it has been confidently asserted that the dialogue must come from the school of Menippus, or be an attempt to turn the tables on Polystratus, and so on. </p><p rend="indent">Everything must have a source (if only the author’s ingenuity) and the source here, so far as it can be predicated with any certainty, is the tenth book of the <title rend="italic">Odyssey</title> seen through the humorous eyes of a young Boeotian.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">So the sensible Hirzel (<foreign xml:lang="lat">op. cit.</foreign> ii, p. 131); see also Hartman, <title xml:lang="lat" rend="italic">De Plutarcho</title>, p. 576. Stylometry, however, does not encourage the view that this is an early work (Sandbach, <title rend="italic">Class. Quart.</title> xxxiii, p. 196).</note> We have here, then, a Boeotian <pb xml:id="v.12.p.490"/> pig instructing the favourite of Athena.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">Plutarch actually quotes the proverb in his <title rend="italic">Life of Demosthenes</title>, xi. 5 (851 b) and <title xml:lang="lat" rend="italic">Mor.</title> 803 d, but does not seem to realize its possible application here. See the note on 995 f <foreign xml:lang="lat">infra</foreign>.</note> It was once fashionable to assert, or imply, that since Plutarch was once a young Boeotian himself, matters could not be so simple, nor could he be the author. But the climate of scholarship is, perhaps, changing. There are few of Plutarch’s admirers who will not claim this lively work for one of his more admirable achievements, written, perhaps, when he was quite young. </p><p rend="indent">Even if the authorship is accepted without hesitation, there is little else that is certain except that the Stoics are constantly under attack, though rather less directly than in the preceding dialogue. There is grave doubt about the title: is it no. 127 or no. 135 in the Lamprias Catalogue? Or, as it has become popular to call it, is it really the <title rend="italic">Gryllus</title>?<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">Ziegler (<title rend="italic">RE</title>, <foreign xml:lang="lat">s.v.</foreign> <q>Plutarchos,</q> 743) says that <title rend="italic">Gryllus</title> is impossible in spite of the Platonic examples, but appears to admit <title rend="italic">Ammonius</title> (no. 84 in the Lamprias Catalogue).</note> There are a number of troublesome lacunae; the work, as it stands, ends suddenly with a gay witticism instead of being continued to a more conventional termination.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">See the last note on 992 e <foreign xml:lang="lat">infra</foreign>.</note> It is only too likely that the more mature Plutarch would have gone on and on; but what would the clever young man who concocted this conceit have done?<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">Curiously enough, Xenophon is the most famous son of the historical Gryllus and he is said to have been once a prisoner in Boeotia (Philostratus, <title xml:lang="lat" rend="italic">Vit. Soph.</title> 12).</note> </p><p rend="indent">For once, there is a good translation, or paraphrase, the German one of Bruno Snell in his <title rend="italic">Plutarch</title> <pb xml:id="v.12.p.491"/> (Zürich, 1948), though this version gives almost too exciting an impression of vivacity and wit by omitting the more tiresome sections. </p><p rend="indent">Those interested in Gryllus’ remarks on the indecent ways in which men pervert animals to their taste will find a sympathetic exposition in E. G. Boulenger’s <title rend="italic">Animal Mysteries</title> (London, 1927). </p></div><pb xml:id="v.12.p.493"/><div type="textpart" subtype="section" n="1"><head rend="center">(The speakers in the dialogue are Odysseus, Circe, and Gryllus.) </head><p rend="indent"><said who="#Odysseus"><label>ODYSSEUS.</label> These facts,<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">For the beginning <foreign xml:lang="lat">cf.</foreign> Horace, <title rend="italic">Sat.</title> ii. 5. 1: <quote rend="blockquote" xml:lang="lat"><q>Haec quoque, Teresia, praeter narrata<gap reason="ellipsis" rend=". . . "/>,</q></quote> a form which is assumed to go back to Menippus.</note> Circe, I believe I have learned and shall not forget them; yet I should be happy to learn from you further whether there are any Greeks among those whom you have changed from the shape of men into wolves and lions.</said></p><p rend="indent"><said who="#Circe"><label>CIRCE.</label> Quite a few, beloved Odysseus. But what is your reason for asking this question?</said></p><p rend="indent"><said who="#Odysseus"><label>ODYSSEUS.</label> It is, I swear, because it would bring me noble glory among the Greeks if by your favour I should restore comrades of mine to their original humanity and not allow them to grow old in the unnatural guise of beasts, leading an existence that is so piteous and shameful.</said></p><p rend="indent"><said who="#Circe"><label>CIRCE.</label> Here’s a lad who finds it appropriate that not only himself and his companions, but even total strangers should, through his stupidity, find his ambition their ruin.</said></p><p rend="indent"><said who="#Odysseus"><label>ODYSSEUS.</label> This is a new potion<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">By which she transformed men into beasts: <title rend="italic">Odyssey</title>, x. 236.</note> of words that you are stirring and drugging for me, Circe. It will certainly <pb xml:id="v.12.p.495"/> transform me literally into a beast if I am to take your word for it that changing from beast to man spells ruin. </said></p><p rend="indent"><said who="#Circe"><label>CIRCE.</label> Haven’t you already worked a stranger magic than this on yourself? You who refused an ageless, immortal life at my side and would struggle through a thousand new dangers to a woman who is mortal and, I can assure you, no longer so very young - and this for no object other than to make yourself more gaped at and renowned than you already are, pursuing an empty phantom instead of what is truly good.</said></p><p rend="indent"><said who="#Odysseus"><label>ODYSSEUS.</label> All right, let it be as you say, Circe. Why must we quarrel again and again about the same matters? Now please just grant me the favour of letting the men go free. </said></p><p rend="indent"><said who="#Circe"><label>CIRCE.</label> By the Black Goddess,<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">Hecate, goddess of black magic, who was invoked for such functions at least from the time of Euripides’ <title rend="italic">Medea</title> (394 ff.).</note> it’s not so simple as that. These creatures are no run of the mill. You must ask them first if they are willing. If they say no, my hero, you’ll have to argue with them and convince them. And if you don’t, and they win the argument, then you must be content with having exercised poor judgement about yourself and your friends.</said></p><p rend="indent"><said who="#Odysseus"><label>ODYSSEUS.</label> Dear lady, why are you making fun of me? How can they argue with me or I with them so long as they are asses and hogs and lions? </said></p><p rend="indent"><said who="#Circe"><label>CIRCE.</label> Courage, courage, my ambitious friend. I’ll see to it that you shall find them both receptive and responsive. Or rather, one of the number will be enough to thrust and parry for them all. Presto! You may talk with this one.</said><pb xml:id="v.12.p.497"/></p><p rend="indent"><said who="#Odysseus"><label>ODYSSEUS.</label> And how am I to address him, Circe? Who in the world was he?<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">After the Homeric formula, <foreign xml:lang="lat">e.g.</foreign>, <title rend="italic">Odyssey</title>, x. 325.</note> </said></p><p rend="indent"><said who="#Circe"><label>CIRCE.</label> What’s that to do with the issue? Call him Gryllus,<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><q>Grunter,</q><q>swine.</q></note> if you like. I’ll retire now to avoid any suggestion that he is arguing against his own convictions to curry favour with me. </said></p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" n="2"><p rend="indent"><said who="#Gryllus"><label>GRYLLUS.</label> Hello, Odysseus. </said></p><p rend="indent"><said who="#Odysseus"><label>ODYSSEUS.</label> And you too, Gryllus, for heaven’s sake! </said></p><p rend="indent"><said who="#Gryllus"><label>GRYLLUS.</label> What do you want to ask? </said></p><p rend="indent"><said who="#Odysseus"><label>ODYSSEUS.</label> Since I am aware that you have been men, I feel sorry for all of you in your present plight; yet it is only natural that I should be more concerned for those of you who were Greeks before you fell into this misfortune. So now I have asked Circe to remove the spell from any Greek who chooses and restore him to his original shape and let him go back home with us. </said></p><p rend="indent"><said who="#Gryllus"><label>GRYLLUS.</label> Stop, Odysseus! Not a word more! You see, we don’t any of us think much of you either, for evidently it was a farce, that talk of your cleverness and your fame as one whose intelligence far surpassed the rest - a man who boggles at the simple matter of changing from worse to better because he hasn’t considered the matter. For just as children dread the doctor’s doses<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><foreign xml:lang="lat">Cf.</foreign> Lucretius, iv. 11 ff.; Plato, <title rend="italic">Laws</title>, 720 a. If one takes <title rend="italic">Laws</title>, 646 c literally, there was some reason for fear.</note> and run from lessons, the very things that, by changing them from invalids and fools, will make them healthier and wiser, just so you have shied away from the change from one shape to another. At this very moment you are not only living in fear and trembling as a companion of <pb xml:id="v.12.p.499"/> Circe, frightened that she may, before you know it, turn you into a pig or a wolf, but you are also trying to persuade us, who live in an abundance of good things, to abandon them, and with them the lady who provides them, and sail away with you, when we have again become men, the most unfortunate of all creatures! </said></p><p rend="indent"><said who="#Odysseus"><label>ODYSSEUS.</label> To me, Gryllus, you seem to have lost not only your shape, but your intelligence also under the influence of that drug. You have become infected with strange and completely perverted notions. Or was it rather an inclination to swinishness that conjured you into this shape?<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">That is, you were always a swine. It is only your shape that is altered.</note> </said></p><p rend="indent"><said who="#Gryllus"><label>GRYLLUS.</label> Neither of these, king of the Cephallenians.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">After Homer, <title rend="italic">Iliad</title>, ii. 631; <title rend="italic">Odyssey</title>, xxiv. 378; or, taking the pun, <q>King of Brains,</q> <q>Mastermind.</q> </note> But if it is your pleasure to discuss the matter instead of hurling abuse, I shall quickly make you see that we are right to prefer our present life in place of the former one, now that we have tried both. </said></p><p rend="indent"><said who="#Odysseus"><label>ODYSSEUS.</label> Go on. I should like to hear you. </said></p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" n="3"><p rend="indent"><said who="#Gryllus"><label>GRYLLUS.</label> And I, in that case, to instruct you. Let us begin with the virtues, which, we note, inspire you with pride; for you rate yourselves as far superior to animals<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><foreign xml:lang="lat">Cf.</foreign> 962 a <foreign xml:lang="lat">supra</foreign>; on the virtues of animals see Aristotle, <title xml:lang="lat" rend="italic">Historia Animal.</title> i. 1 (488 f. 12 ff.); Plato, <title rend="italic">Laches</title>, 196 e; <foreign xml:lang="lat">al.</foreign></note> in justice and wisdom and courage and all the rest of them. But answer me this, wisest of men! Once I heard you telling Circe about the land of the Cyclopes,<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">Homer, <title rend="italic">Odyssey</title>, ix. 108 ff.</note> that though it is not ploughed at all nor does anyone sow there, yet it is naturally so fertile and fecund that it produces spontaneously <pb xml:id="v.12.p.501"/> every kind of crops. Do you, then, rate this land higher than rugged, goat-pasturing Ithaca,<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><title rend="italic">Odyssey</title>, xiii. 242 ff.; <foreign xml:lang="lat">cf.</foreign> iv. 606.</note> which barely yields the tiller a meagre, churlish, trifling crop after great efforts and much toil? And see that you don’t lose your temper and give me a patriotic answer that isn’t what you really believe. </said></p><p rend="indent"><said who="#Odysseus"><label>ODYSSEUS.</label> I have no need to lie; for though I love and cherish my native soil more, the other wins my approval and admiration. </said></p><p rend="indent"><said who="#Gryllus"><label>GRYLLUS.</label> Then this, we shall say, is the situation: the wisest of men thinks fit to commend and approve one thing while he loves and prefers another. Now I assume that your answer applies to the spiritual field also, for the situation is the same as with the land<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">The principle <foreign xml:lang="lat">ubi bene, ibi patria</foreign>: Pacuvius, frag. 380 (Warmington, <title rend="italic">Remains of Old Latin</title>, ii. p. 303); Aristophanes, <title rend="italic">Plutus</title>, 1151; Cicero, <title rend="italic">Tusc. Disp.</title> v. 37, 108; Appian, <title xml:lang="lat" rend="italic">B.C.</title> ii. 8. 50.</note>: that spiritual soil is better which produces a harvest of virtue as a spontaneous crop without toil. </said></p><p rend="indent"><said who="#Odysseus"><label>ODYSSEUS.</label> Yes, this too you may assume. </said></p><p rend="indent"><said who="#Gryllus"><label>GRYLLUS.</label> At this moment, then, you are conceding the point that the soul of beasts has a greater natural capacity and perfection for the generation of virtue; for without command or instruction, <q>unsown and unploughed,</q> as it were, it naturally brings forth and develops such virtue as is proper in each case. </said></p><p rend="indent"><said who="#Odysseus"><label>ODYSSEUS.</label> And what sort of virtue, Gryllus, is ever found in beasts? </said></p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" n="4"><p rend="indent"><said who="#Gryllus"><label>GRYLLUS.</label> Ask rather what sort of virtue is not found in them more than in the wisest of men? Take first, if you please, courage, in which you take great pride, not even pretending to blush when you are called <q>valiant</q> and <q>sacker of cities.</q> <note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><title rend="italic">Iliad</title>, ii. 278.</note> Yet you, <pb xml:id="v.12.p.503"/> you villain, are the man who by tricks and frauds have led astray men who knew only a straightforward, noble style of war and were unversed in deceit and lies; while on your freedom from scruple you confer the name of the virtue that is least compatible with such nefariousness. Wild beasts, however, you will observe, are guileless and artless in their struggles, whether against one another or against you, and conduct their battles with unmistakably naked courage under the impulse of genuine valour. No edict summons them, nor do they fear a writ of desertion. No, it is their nature to flee subjection; with a stout heart they maintain an indomitable spirit to the very end. Nor are they conquered even when physically overpowered; they never give up in their hearts, even while perishing in the fray. In many cases, when beasts are dying, their valour withdraws together with the fighting spirit to some point where it is concentrated in one member and resists the slayer with convulsive movements and fierce anger<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">Like eels or snakes whose tails continue to twitch long after they are dead.</note> until, like a fire, it is completely extinguished and departs. </said></p><p rend="indent"><said who="#Gryllus" rend="merge">Beasts never beg or sue for pity or acknowledge defeat: lion is never slave to lion, or horse to horse through cowardice, as man is to man when he unprotestingly accepts the name whose root is cowardice.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><q>Slavery</q> (<emph>douleia</emph>) as though derived from <q>cowardice</q> (<emph>deilia</emph>).</note> And when men have subdued beasts by snares and tricks, such of them as are full grown refuse food and endure the pangs of thirst until they <pb xml:id="v.12.p.505"/> induce and embrace death in place of slavery.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">They also refuse to breed in captivity: Pliny, <title rend="italic">Nat. Hist.</title> x. 182; <foreign xml:lang="lat">al.</foreign></note> But nestlings and cubs, which by reason of age are tender and docile, are offered many beguiling allurements and enticements that act as drugs. These give them a taste for unnatural pleasures and modes of life, and in time make them spiritless to the point where they accept and submit to their so-called <q>taming,</q> which is really an emasculation of their fighting spirit. </said></p><p rend="indent"><said who="#Gryllus" rend="merge">These facts make it perfectly obvious that bravery is an innate characteristic of beasts, while in human beings an independent spirit is actually contrary to nature. The point that best proves this, gentle Odysseus, is the fact that in beasts valour is naturally equal in both sexes<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><foreign xml:lang="lat">Cf.</foreign> the Cynic doctrine in Diogenes Laertius, vi. 12: virtue is the same for women as for men.</note> and the female is in no way inferior to the male. She takes her part both in the struggle for existence and in the defence of her brood.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><foreign xml:lang="lat">Cf.</foreign> Plato, <title rend="italic">Laws</title>, 814 b.</note> You have heard, I suppose, of the sow of Crommyon<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><foreign xml:lang="lat">Cf.</foreign><title rend="italic">Life of Theseus</title>, 9 (4 d-e), which gives a rationalizing version of the story and converts the sow Phaea into a female bandit of the same name. See also Frazer on Apollodorus, <title rend="italic">Epitome</title> i. 1 (L.C.L., vol. ii, p. 129); Plato, <title rend="italic">Laches</title>, 196 e.</note> which, though a female beast, caused so much trouble to Theseus. That famous Sphinx<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><foreign xml:lang="lat">Cf.</foreign> Frazer on Apollodorus, <title rend="italic">Library</title>, iii. 5. 8 (L.C.L., vol. i, p. 347).</note> would have got no good of her wisdom as she sat on the heights of Mt. Phicium, weaving her riddles and puzzles, if she had not continued to surpass the Thebans greatly in power and courage. Somewhere thereabouts lived also the Teumesian<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><foreign xml:lang="lat">Cf.</foreign> Frazer on Pausanias, ix. 19. 1.</note> vixen, a <q>thing atrocious</q> <note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">Presumably a quotation which has not been identified.</note>; and not far away, they say, was the Pythoness who <pb xml:id="v.12.p.507"/> fought with Apollo for the oracle at Delphi.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><foreign xml:lang="lat">Cf.</foreign><title xml:lang="lat" rend="italic">Mor.</title> 293 c, 421 c; Frazer on Apollodorus, i. 4. 1 (L.C.L., vol. i, p. 27).</note> Your king<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">Agamemnon (<title rend="italic">Iliad</title>, xxiii. 295-299).</note> received Aethe<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">A racing mare.</note> from the Sicyonian<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">Echepolus.</note> as a recompense for excusing him from military service, making a very wise choice when he preferred a fine, spirited mare to a cowardly man. You yourself have often observed in panthers and lionesses that the female in no way yields to the male in spirit and valour. Yet, while you are off at the wars, your wife sits at home by the fire and troubles herself not so much as a swallow to ward off those who come against herself and her home - and this though she is a Spartan born and bred.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">As a daughter of Icarius, the brother of Tyndareüs, she was a first cousin of Helen.</note> So why should I go on to mention Carian or Maeonian women?<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">Extreme examples of female lassitude, when even the Spartan Penelope is hopeless by Gryllus’ high standards.</note> Surely from what has been said it is perfectly obvious that men have no natural claim to courage<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><foreign xml:lang="lat">Cf.</foreign> Epicurus, frag. 517 (Usener).</note>; if they did, women would have just as great a portion of valour. It follows that your practice of courage is brought about by legal compulsion, which is neither voluntary nor intentional, but in subservience to custom and censure and moulded by extraneous beliefs and arguments.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><foreign xml:lang="lat">Cf.</foreign> Aelian, <title xml:lang="lat" rend="italic">De Natura Animal.</title> vi. 1.</note> When you face toils and dangers, you do so not because you are courageous, but because you are more afraid of some alternative.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><foreign xml:lang="lat">Cf.</foreign> Lucan, vii. 104 f.: <q><foreign xml:lang="lat">Multos in summa pericula misit | venturi timor ipse mali.</foreign></q> </note> For just as that one of your companions who is the first to board ship stands up to the light oar, not because he thinks nothing of it, but because he fears and shuns the heavier one<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">He chooses the light oar, not because it is a mere nothing to work, but because he dreads the heavier one.</note>; just so he who accepts the lash to <pb xml:id="v.12.p.509"/> escape the sword, or meets a foe in battle rather than be tortured or killed, does so not from courage to face the one situation, but from fear of the other. So it is clear that all your courage is merely the cowardice of prudence and all your valour merely fear that has the good sense to escape one course by taking another.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><foreign xml:lang="lat">Cf.</foreign> Plato, <title rend="italic">Phaedo</title>, 68 d.</note> And, to sum up, if you think that you are better in courage than beasts, why do your poets call the doughtiest fighters <q>wolf-minded</q> <note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">In Homer (<title rend="italic">Iliad</title>, xv. 430) and elsewhere used only as a proper name. Plutarch’s source is probably the lost Epic Cycle.</note> and <q>lion-hearted</q> <note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><title rend="italic">Iliad</title>, v. 639; vii. 228; of Odysseus himself in <title rend="italic">Odyssey</title>, iv. 724.</note> and <q>like a boar in valour,</q> <note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><title rend="italic">Iliad</title>, iv. 253.</note> though no poet ever called a lion <q>man-hearted</q> or a boar <q>like a man in valour</q>? But, I imagine, just as when those who are swift are called <q>wind-footed</q> <note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><title rend="italic">Iliad</title>, ii. 786 and often (of Iris).</note> and those who are handsome are called <q>godlike,</q> <note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><title rend="italic">Iliad</title>, iii. 16 and often.</note> there is exaggeration in the imagery; just so the poets bring in a higher ideal when they compare mighty warriors to something else. And the reason is that the spirit of anger is, as it were, the tempering or the cutting edge of courage. Now beasts use this undiluted in their contests, whereas you men have it mixed with calculation, as wine with water, so that it is displaced in the presence of danger and fails you when you need it most. Some of you even declare that anger should not enter at all into fighting, but be dismissed in order to make use of sober calculation<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">For the calculation of fear see Plato, <title rend="italic">Laws</title>, 644 d.</note>; their contention is correct so far as selfpreservation goes, but is disgracefully false as regards valorous defence. For surely it is absurd for you to find fault with Nature because she did not equip <pb xml:id="v.12.p.511"/> your bodies with natural stings, or place fighting tusks among your teeth, or give you nails like curved claws,<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><q>Comparative anatomy teaches us that man resembles frugivorous animals in everything, and carnivorous in nothing; he has neither claws wherewith to seize his prey, nor distinct and pointed teeth to tear the living fibre</q> (Shelley, <title rend="italic">A Vindication of Natural Diet</title>; see the introduction to the following essay). For some modern remarks <foreign xml:lang="lat">cf.</foreign> Boulenger, <title rend="italic">Animal Mysteries</title>, p. 196.</note> while you yourselves remove or curb the emotional instrument that Nature has given.</said></p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" n="5"><p rend="indent"><said who="#Odysseus"><label>ODYSSEUS.</label> Bless me, Gryllus, you must once have been a very clever sophist,<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">Gryllus acknowledges the truth of this soft impeachment later on, 989 b, <foreign xml:lang="lat">infra</foreign>.</note> one may judge, since even as things are, and speaking from your swinishness, you can attack the subject with such fervent ardour. But why have you failed to discuss temperance, the next in order? </said></p><p rend="indent"><said who="#Gryllus"><label>GRYLLUS.</label> Because I thought that you would first wish to take exception to what I have said. But you are eager to hear about temperance since you are the husband of a model of chastity and believe that you yourself have given a proof of self-control by rejecting the embraces of Circe. And in this you are no more continent than any of the beasts; for neither do they desire to consort with their betters, but pursue both pleasure and love with mates of like species. So it is no wonder that, like the Mendesian<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><foreign xml:lang="lat">Cf.</foreign> Herodotus, ii. 46; Strabo xvii. 19; and contrast Aelian, <title xml:lang="lat" rend="italic">De Natura Animal.</title> vii. 19.</note> goat in Egypt which, when shut up with many beautiful women, is said not to be eager to consort with them, but is far more excited about nannies, you likewise are contented with the kind of love that is familiar to you and, being a mortal, are not eager to sleep with a goddess. As for the chastity of Penelope, the cawing of countless crows will pour laughter and contempt upon it; for every crow, if her mate dies, remains a widow, not merely for a <pb xml:id="v.12.p.513"/> short time, but for nine generations of men.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><foreign xml:lang="lat">Cf.</foreign><title xml:lang="lat" rend="italic">Mor.</title> 415 c and the note there.</note> It follows that your fair Penelope is nine times inferior in chastity to any crow you please. </said></p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" n="6"><p rend="indent"><said who="#Gryllus" rend="merge"><label resp="perseus">GRYLLUS.</label> Now since you are not unaware that I am a sophist, let me marshal my arguments in some order by defining temperance and analysing the desires according to their kinds. Temperance,<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">See Epicurus, frag. 456 (Usener); contrast Aristotle, <title rend="italic">Nic. Ethics</title> iii. 10 ff. (1117 b 23 ff.); [Plato], <title rend="italic">Def.</title> 411 e; <foreign xml:lang="lat">al.</foreign> For the temperance of animals see Aristotle, <title xml:lang="lat" rend="italic">De Gen. Animal.</title> i. 4 (717 a 27).</note> then, is a curtailment and an ordering of the desires that eliminate those that are extraneous or superfluous and discipline in modest and timely fashion those that are essential.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><foreign xml:lang="lat">Cf.</foreign><title xml:lang="lat" rend="italic">Mor.</title> 127 a, 584 d f.</note> You can, of course, observe countless differences in the desires<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">There is probably a short lacuna at this point.</note><gap reason="lost" rend="..."/> and the desire to eat and drink is at once natural and essential, while the pleasures of love, which, though they find their origin in nature, yet may be forgone and discarded without much inconvenience, have been called natural, but not essential. But there are desires of another kind, neither essential nor natural, that are imported in a deluge from without as a result of your inane illusions and because you lack true culture. So great is their multitude that the natural desires are, every one of them, all but overwhelmed, as though an alien rabble were overpowering the native citizenry. But beasts have souls completely inaccessible and closed to these adventitious passions and live their lives as free from empty illusions as though they dwelt far from the sea.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">See Plato, <title rend="italic">Laws</title>, 704 e ff. (and Shorey, <title rend="italic">What Plato Said, <foreign xml:lang="lat">ad loc.</foreign></title> p. 630): the sea is the symbol of mischievous foreign influence. <foreign xml:lang="lat">Cf.</foreign> Aristotle, <title rend="italic">Politics</title>, 1327 a 11 ff.</note> They fall short in the matter of delicate and luxurious living, but solidly <pb xml:id="v.12.p.515"/> protect their sobriety and the better regulation of their desires since those that dwell within them are neither numerous nor alien.</said></p><p rend="indent"><said who="#Gryllus" rend="merge">Certainly there was a time when I myself, no less than you now, was dazzled by gold and held it to be an incomparable possession; so likewise I was caught by the lure of silver and ivory and the man who had most property of this sort seemed to me to be a blissful favourite of the gods, whether he was a Phrygian or a Carian, one more villainous than Dolon<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">See <title rend="italic">Iliad</title>, x, where Dolon betrays Troy.</note> or more unfortunate than Priam.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">See especially his speech, <title rend="italic">Iliad</title>, xxii. 38-76.</note> In that situation, constantly activated<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">Like a puppet on strings.</note> by these desires, I reaped no joy or pleasure from the other things of life, which I had sufficiently and to spare. I grumbled at my life, finding myself destitute of the most important things and a loser in the lottery of fortune. This is the reason why, as I recall, when I saw you once in Crete tricked out in holiday attire, it was not your intellect or your virtue that I envied, but the softness of the elegantly woven garment and the beautiful wool of your purple cloak that I admired and gaped at (the clasp, I believe, was of gold and had some frivolity worked on it in exquisitely fine intaglio). I followed you about as enchanted as a woman. But now I am rid and purified of all those empty illusions.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">Man alone has luxury: Pliny, <title rend="italic">Nat. Hist.</title> vii. 5.</note> I have no eyes for gold and silver and can pass them by just like any common stone; and as for your fine robes and tapestries, I swear there’s nothing sweeter for me to rest in when I’m full than deep, <pb xml:id="v.12.p.517"/> soft mud.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><foreign xml:lang="lat">Cf.</foreign> Aelian, <title xml:lang="lat" rend="italic">De Natura Animal.</title> v. 45.</note> None, then, of such adventitious desires has a place in our souls; our life for the most part is controlled by the essential desires and pleasures. As for those that are non-essential, but merely natural, we resort to them without either irregularity or excess.</said></p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" n="7"><p rend="indent"><said who="#Gryllus" rend="merge"><label resp="perseus">GRYLLUS.</label> Let us, in fact, first describe these pleasures. Our pleasure in fragrant substances, those that by their nature stimulate our sense of smell, besides the fact that our enjoyment of this is simple and costs nothing, also contributes to utility by providing a way for us to tell good food from bad. For the tongue is said to be, and is, a judge of what is sweet or bitter or sour, when liquid flavours combine and fuse with the organ of taste; but our sense of smell, even before we taste, is a judge that can much more critically distinguish the quality of each article of food than any royal taster<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">The servant who pretasted the dishes at a king’s table to make certain that none of them was poisoned; <foreign xml:lang="lat">cf.</foreign> Athenaeus, 171 b ff. On the <foreign xml:lang="lat">collegium praegustatorum</foreign> at Rome see Furneaux on Tacitus, <title rend="italic">Annals</title>, xii. 66. 5 and <title rend="italic">Class. Phil.</title> xxvii, p. 160.</note> in the world. It admits what is proper, rejects what is alien, and will not let it touch or give pain to the taste, but informs on and denounces what is bad before any harm is done. And in other respects smell is no nuisance to us, as it is to you, forcing you to collect and mix together incense of one kind or another and cinnamon<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">The aromatic bark of various species of <foreign xml:lang="lat">Cinnamomum</foreign>, especially <foreign xml:lang="lat">C. zeylanicum</foreign> Breyne, imported from India.</note> and nard<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">As an impot from north-eastern India (probably meant here), the rootstock of spikenard, <foreign xml:lang="lat">Nardostachys jatamansi</foreign> DC.</note> and malobathrum<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">The leaves of a plant of uncertain identity that grew in the Far East, perhaps Indian patchouli, <foreign xml:lang="lat">Pogostemon Patchouly</foreign> Pellet., or perhaps a type of cinnamon; <foreign xml:lang="lat">cf.</foreign> Pliny, <title rend="italic">Nat. Hist.</title> xxiii. 93.</note> and Arabian aromatic reeds,<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">Probably here sweet flag, <foreign xml:lang="lat">Acorus calamus</foreign> L.</note> with the aid of a formidable dyer’s or witch’s art, of the sort to which you give the name of unguentation, <pb xml:id="v.12.p.519"/> thus buying at a great price an effeminate, emasculating luxury which has absolutely no real use. Yet, though such is its nature, it has depraved not only every woman, but lately the greater part of men as well, so that they refuse to sleep even with their own wives unless they come to bed reeking with myrrh and scented powders.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><foreign xml:lang="lat">Cf.</foreign> Pliny’s frequent and indignant remarks, <foreign xml:lang="lat">e.g.</foreign> <title rend="italic">Nat. Hist.</title> xii. 29 and 83; also Seneca, <title xml:lang="lat" rend="italic">Qu. Nat.</title> vii. 30-31.</note> But sows attract boars and nannies bucks and other female creatures their consorts by means of their own special odours; scented, as they are, with pure dew and grassy meadows, they are attracted to the nuptial union by mutual affection.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><foreign xml:lang="lat">Cf.</foreign><title xml:lang="lat" rend="italic">Mor.</title> 493 f; Plato, <title rend="italic">Laws</title>, 840 d; Oppian, <title xml:lang="lat" rend="italic">Cyn.</title> i. 378.</note> The females are not coy and do not cloak their desires with deceits or trickeries or denials; nor do the males, driven on by the sting of mad lust, purchase the act of procreation by money or toil or servitude. No! Both parties celebrate at the proper time a love without deceit or hire, a love which in the season of spring<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><foreign xml:lang="lat">Cf.</foreign> Pliny, <title rend="italic">Nat. Hist.</title> x. 171; Philo, 48 (p. 123); Aelian, <title xml:lang="lat" rend="italic">De Natura Animal.</title> ix. 63; Oppian, <title xml:lang="lat" rend="italic">Hal.</title> i. 473 ff.</note> awakens, like the burgeoning of plants and trees, the desire of animals, and then immediately extinguishes it. Neither does the female continue to receive the male after she has conceived, nor does the male attempt her.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">But see Oppian, <title xml:lang="lat" rend="italic">Cyn.</title> iii. 146 ff.</note> So slight and feeble is the regard we have for pleasure: our whole concern is with Nature. Whence it comes about that to this very day the desires of beasts have encompassed no homosexual mating.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><foreign xml:lang="lat">Cf.</foreign> Plato, <title rend="italic">Laws</title>, 836 c; but see Pliny, <title rend="italic">Nat. Hist.</title> x. 166; Aelian, <title xml:lang="lat" rend="italic">De Natura Animal.</title> xv. 11; <title xml:lang="lat" rend="italic">Varia Hist.</title> i. 15; <foreign xml:lang="lat">al.</foreign> </note> But you have a fair amount of such trafficking among your high and mighty nobility, to say nothing of the baser <pb xml:id="v.12.p.521"/> sort. Agamemnon<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">See Barber and Butler on Propertius, iii. 7. 21.</note> came to Boeotia hunting for Argynnus, who tried to elude him, and slandering the sea and winds<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">Probably a brief lacuna should be assumed.</note><gap reason="lost" rend="..."/> then he gave his noble self a noble bath in Lake Copaïs to drown his passion there and get rid of his desire. Just so Heracles,<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">The story of Hylas is related by Theocritus, xiii, Apollonius Rhodius, i. 1207-1272, Propertius, i, 20; <foreign xml:lang="lat">al.</foreign> </note> pursuing a beardless lad, lagged behind the other heroes<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">The Argonauts.</note> and deserted the expedition. On the Rotunda of Ptoian Apollo<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">The famous shrine in Boeotia.</note> one of your men secretly inscribed FAIR IS ACHILLES<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">On the formula see Robinson and Fluck, <q>Greek Love Names</q> (<title rend="italic">Johns Hopkins Archaeol. Stud.</title> xxiii, 1937).</note> - when Achilles already had a son. And I hear that the inscription is still in place.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">Reiske acutely observes that this is presumably an annotation of Plutarch himself, speaking not from Gryllus’ character, but from his own. Since Odysseus, Achilles, and Gryllus were contemporaries, it would hardly be surprising that the inscription should still be there. And if it were, how would Gryllus know?</note> But a cock that mounts another for the lack of a female is burned alive because some prophet or seer declares that such an event is an important and terrible omen. On this basis even men themselves acknowledge that beasts have a better claim to temperance and the non-violation of nature in their pleasures. Not even Nature, with Law for her ally, can keep within bounds the unchastened vice of your hearts; but as though swept by the current of their lusts beyond the barrier at many points, men do such deeds as wantonly outrage Nature, upset her order, and confuse her distinctions. For men have, in fact, attempted to consort with goats<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">See Gow on Theocritus, i. 86; Bergen Evans, <foreign xml:lang="lat">op. cit.</foreign> 101 f., and on the <q>vileness</q> of animals, p. 173. For the general problem see, <foreign xml:lang="lat">e.g.</foreign>, J. Rosenbaum, <title xml:lang="deu" rend="italic">Geschichte der Lustseuche im Altertume</title> (Berlin, 1904), pp. 274 ff.</note> and sows and mares, and women have gone mad with lust for <pb xml:id="v.12.p.523"/> male beasts. From such unions your Minotaurs<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><foreign xml:lang="lat">Cf.</foreign> Frazer on Apollodorus, iii. 1. 4 (L.C.L., vol. i, pp. 305-307); Philo, 66 (p. 131).</note> and Aegipans,<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><q>Goat Pans</q>; <foreign xml:lang="lat">cf.</foreign> Hyginus, fable 155; Mela, i. 8. 48.</note> and, I suppose, your Sphinxes<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">See Frazer on Apollodorus, iii. 5. 8 (L.C.L., vol. i, p. 347).</note> and Centaurs<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">See Frazer on Apollodorus, <title rend="italic">Epitome</title>, i. 20 (L.C.L., vol. ii, p. 148); <title rend="italic">Oxford Classical Dictionary</title>, <foreign xml:lang="lat">s.v.</foreign> <q>Centaurs.</q> </note> have arisen. Yet it is through hunger that dogs have occasionally eaten a man; and birds have tasted of human flesh through necessity; but no beast has ever attempted a human body for lustful reasons.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">But see, <foreign xml:lang="lat">e.g.</foreign>, Aelian, <title xml:lang="lat" rend="italic">De Natura Animal.</title> xv. 14.</note> But the beasts I have mentioned and many others have been victims of the violent and lawless lusts of man.</said></p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" n="8"><p rend="indent"><said who="#Gryllus" rend="merge"><label resp="perseus">GRYLLUS.</label> Though men are so vile and incontinent where the desires I have spoken of are concerned, they can be proved to be even more so in the case of essential desires, being here far inferior to animals in temperance.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><foreign xml:lang="lat">Cf.</foreign> Philo, 47 (p. 122).</note> These are the desires for food and drink, in which we beasts always take our pleasure along with some sort of utility; whereas you, in your pursuit of pleasure rather than natural nourishment, are punished by many serious ailments which, welling up from one single source, the surfeit of your bodies, fill you with all manner of flatulence that is difficult to purge.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><foreign xml:lang="lat">Cf.</foreign><title xml:lang="lat" rend="italic">Mor.</title> 131 f.</note> In the first place each species of animal has one single food proper to it, grass or some root or fruit. Those that are carnivorous resort to no other kind of nourishment, nor do they deprive those weaker than themselves of sustenance; but the lion lets the deer, and the wolf lets the sheep, feed in its natural pasture. But man in his pleasures is led <pb xml:id="v.12.p.525"/> astray by gluttony to everything edible<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><foreign xml:lang="lat">Cf.</foreign> 964 f <foreign xml:lang="lat">supra</foreign>; and with the whole passage <foreign xml:lang="lat">cf.</foreign> the impressive proem to the seventh book of Pliny’s <title rend="italic">Natural History</title>.</note>; he tries and tastes everything as if he had not yet come to recognize what is suitable and proper for him; alone of all creatures he is omnivorous.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><q>Man is the only animal liable to the disease of a continuously insatiable appetite.</q> Pliny, <title rend="italic">Nat. Hist.</title> xi. 283; <foreign xml:lang="lat">cf.</foreign> Philo, 62 (p. 136); Lucan, iv. 373-381; <foreign xml:lang="lat">al.</foreign> </note> </said></p><p rend="indent"><said who="#Gryllus" rend="merge">In the first place his eating of flesh is caused by no lack of means or methods,<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><foreign xml:lang="lat">Cf.</foreign> 993 d <foreign xml:lang="lat">infra</foreign>.</note> for he can always in season harvest and garner and gather in such a succession of plants and grains as will all but tire him out with their abundance; but driven on by luxurious desires and satiety with merely essential nourishment, he pursues illicit food, made unclean by the slaughter of beasts; and he does this in a much more cruel way than the most savage beasts of prey. Blood and gore and raw flesh are the proper diet of kite and wolf and snake; to man they are an appetizer.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><foreign xml:lang="lat">Cf.</foreign> 993 d, 995 c <foreign xml:lang="lat">infra</foreign>.</note> Then, too, man makes use of every kind of food and does not, like beasts, abstain from most kinds and consequently make war on a few only that he must have for food. In a word, nothing that flies or swims or moves on land has escaped your so-called civilized and hospitable tables. </said></p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" n="9"><p rend="indent"><said who="#Gryllus" rend="merge"><label resp="perseus">GRYLLUS.</label> Well, then. It is admitted that you use animals as appetizers to sweeten your fare.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">Or <q>as supplementary food to make your basic fare more agreeable</q> (Andrews).</note> Why, therefore<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">There is probably a considerable lacuna at this point; it is indicated in one of the mss. The sense may perhaps be: <q>Why, in providing yourselves with meat for your luxurious living, have you invented a special art whose practitioners make cookery their sole study? Animal intelligence, on the contrary,</q> etc.</note> <gap reason="lost" rend="..."/> Animal intelligence, on the contrary, allows no room for useless and pointless arts; and in the case of essential ones, we do not make one man with constant <pb xml:id="v.12.p.527"/> study cling to one department of knowledge and rivet him jealously to that; nor do we receive our arts as alien products or pay to be taught them. Our intelligence produces them on the spot unaided, as its own congenital and legitimate skills. I have heard that in Egypt<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">This curious statement may come from a misreading of Herodotus, ii. 84.</note> everyone is a physician; and in the case of beasts each one is not only his own specialist in medicine, but also in the providing of food, in warfare and hunting as well as in self-defence and music, in so far as any kind of animal has a natural gift for it. From whom have we swine learned, when we are sick, to resort to rivers to catch crabs? Who taught tortoises to devour marjoram after eating the snake?<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><foreign xml:lang="lat">Cf.</foreign> 974 b <foreign xml:lang="lat">supra</foreign> and the note.</note> And who instructed Cretan goats,<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><foreign xml:lang="lat">Cf.</foreign> 974 d <foreign xml:lang="lat">supra</foreign> and the note.</note> when they are pierced by an arrow, to look for dittany, after eating which the arrowhead falls out? For if you speak the truth and say that Nature is their teacher, you are elevating the intelligence of animals to the most sovereign and wisest of first principles. If you do not think that it should be called either reason or intelligence, it is high time for you to cast about for some fairer and even more honourable term to describe it, since certainly the faculty that it brings to bear in action is better and more remarkable.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">That is, <q>better</q> than human intelligence.</note> It is no uninstructed or untrained faculty, but rather self-taught and self-sufficient - and not for lack of strength. It is just because of the health and completeness of its native virtue that it is indifferent to the contributions to its intelligence supplied by the lore of others. Such animals, at any rate, as man for amusement or easy living induces to <pb xml:id="v.12.p.529"/> accept instruction and training have understanding to grasp what they are taught even when it goes contrary to their physical endowment, so superior are their mental powers. I say nothing of puppies that are trained as hunters, or colts schooled to keep time in their gait,<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">Like our trotters or pacers.</note> or crows that are taught to talk, or dogs, to jump through revolving hoops. In the theatres horses and steers go through an exact routine in which they lie down or dance or hold a precarious pose or perform movements not at all easy even for men<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">A somewhat similar performance of elephants is described in Philo, 27 (pp. 113 f.).</note>; and they remember what they have been taught, these exhibitions of docility which are not in the least useful for anything else. If you are doubtful that we can learn arts, then let me tell you that we can even teach them. When partridges<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><foreign xml:lang="lat">Cf.</foreign> 971 c <foreign xml:lang="lat">supra</foreign>; <title xml:lang="lat" rend="italic">Mor.</title> 494 e and the note.</note> are making their escape, they accustom their fledglings to hide by falling on their backs and holding a lump of earth over themselves with their claws. You can observe storks on the roof, the adults showing the art of flying to the young as they make their trial flights.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">In Aelian, <title rend="italic">De Natura Animal.</title> viii. 22 will be found the tale of a stork who did not learn in time.</note> Nightingales<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><foreign xml:lang="lat">Cf.</foreign> 973 b <foreign xml:lang="lat">supra</foreign>.</note> set the example for their young to sing; while nestlings that are caught young and brought up by human care are poorer singers, as though they had left the care of their teacher too early.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">There is probably a long lacuna at this point.</note><gap reason="lost" rend="..."/> and since I have entered into this new body of mine, I marvel at those arguments by which the sophists<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">Probably the Stoics are meant (by anachronism).</note> brought me to consider all creatures except man irrational and senseless. </said></p></div><div type="textpart" subtype="section" n="10"><p rend="indent"><said who="#Odysseus"><label>ODYSSEUS.</label> So now, Gryllus, you are transformed. <pb xml:id="v.12.p.531"/> Do you attribute reason even to the sheep and the ass? </said></p><p rend="indent"><said who="#Gryllus"><label>GRYLLUS.</label> From even these, dearest Odysseus, it is perfectly possible to gather that animals have a natural endowment of reason and intellect. For just as one tree is not more nor less inanimate than another, but they are all in the same state of insensibility, since none is endowed with soul, in the same way one animal would not be thought to be more sluggish or indocile mentally than another if they did not all possess reason and intellect to some degree - though some have a greater or less proportion than others. Please note that cases of dullness and stupidity in some animals are demonstrated by the cleverness and sharpness of others - as when you compare an ass and a sheep with a fox or a wolf or a bee. It is like comparing Polyphemus to you or that dunce Coroebus<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">For Haupt’s fine correction (<title rend="italic">Hermes</title>, vi, p. 4 = <title rend="italic">Opuscula</title>, iii, p. 552) <foreign xml:lang="lat">cf.</foreign> Leutsch and Schneidewin, <title xml:lang="lat" rend="italic">Paroemiographi Graeci</title>, i. 101 (Zenobius, iv. 58); Lucian, <title xml:lang="lat" rend="italic">Philopseudis</title>, 3. Coroebus was proverbially so stupid that he tried to count the waves of the sea.</note> to your grandfather Autolycus.<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true"><title rend="italic">Odyssey</title>, xix. 394 ff.: Autolycus surpassed all men <q>in thefts and perjury,</q> a gift of Hermes.</note> I scarcely believe that there is such a spread between one animal and another as there is between man and man in the matter of judgement and reasoning and memory. </said></p><p rend="indent"><said who="#Odysseus"><label>ODYSSEUS.</label> But consider, Gryllus: is it not a fearful piece of violence to grant reason to creatures that have no inherent knowledge of God? <pb xml:id="v.12.p.533"/> </said></p><p rend="indent"><said who="#Gryllus"><label>GRYLLUS.</label> Then shall we deny, Odysseus, that so wise and remarkable a man as you had Sisyphus for a father?<note resp="editor" place="unspecified" anchored="true">Most critics (and very emphatically Ziegler) believe that the end, perhaps quite a long continuation, is lost; but Reiske ingeniously supposes Gryllus’ final answer to mean: <q>If those who do not know God cannot possess reason, then you, wise Odysseus, can scarcely be descended from such a notorious atheist as Sisyphus.</q> (For Sisyphus’ famous assertion that <q>the gods are only a utilitarian invention</q> see Critias, <title rend="italic">Sisyphus</title>, frag. 1: Nauck, <title xml:lang="lat" rend="italic">Trag. Graec. Frag.</title> pp. 771 f.). <p/>There would, then, be no further point in prolonging the discussion; and no doubt by this time Odysseus has changed his mind about the desirability of any further metamorphosis of his interlocutor, since the last argument touches him nearly. Sisyphus was said by some to be his real father (<title xml:lang="lat" rend="italic">Mor.</title> 301 d). <p/>Others, however, believe that some discussion of further virtues, such as natural piety, must have followed; and perhaps the account closed with a consideration of justice. But would Odysseus have been convinced (<foreign xml:lang="lat">cf.</foreign> 986 b)? Or is this as good a place as any to end? Plutarch used no stage directions, so that, as in the classical Platonic dialogues, when the characters stop speaking, the discussion is over and we are left to draw our own conclusions. The undoubted fact, however, that the work is mutilated in several other places allows us to leave the question open.</note> </said></p></div></div></body></text></TEI>
                </passage>
            </reply>
            </GetPassage>